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22 December 2023
THE BOYS OF BETA HAVE DONE IT AGAIN WITH THEIR NEWEST ALBUM, HEROES TO ZEROS. WAYNE CHINSANG CAUGHT UP WITH ONE OF THE BETA BAND\'S MULTI-TASKERS, ROBIN JONES, ON A BEACH IN ENGLAND, TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE NEW ALBUM AND THE STIGMA OF ALL THINGS BETA.
Wayne: Are you in Scotland right now?
Robin: I’m in Portsmouth, England. I’m enjoying the summer off in the sunshine.
W: Oh, that’s nice. I’m in Milwaukee enjoying nothing.
R: (laughs) Oh, come on.
W: (laughs) Well, I just wanted to start by saying congratulations on the new record.
R: Thank you.
W: It’s been out for a week now?
R: Actually, two weeks here [Europe].
W: Oh, alright. Has the feedback been good?
R: Yeah. We’ve gotten really good feedback. We’ve been on tour for a couple weeks now, so that’s a bit of a shock to our systems. But, it’s going well. We’re getting the grips of it, and we’re getting stronger every night, so that’s good. By the time we hit the States, we’ll be streaming balls of light.
W: (laughs) You’ll be on fire.
R: Possibly, yeah. (laughs)
W: I read that you guys approached this album [Heroes To Zeros] differently from the ways you’ve approached previous albums, and that you practiced the material for 18 months before you even laid down one track in the studio.
R: Yeah, that’s right.
W: So, I know the songs progress a lot on tour for you guys. But is the new material still progressing as much on tour? I ask because they were so solid by the time they hit the studio.
R: They’re morphing a little bit, but they’re pretty much the same.
W: Well, does it then feel more formulaic, since you know the material so well now? Are you expanding on it as much as you would have, if you’d have just went directly into the studio and recorded?
R: Maybe not. But that’s what we wanted to do. If you just go and record it in the studio, let’s say, and you’re dealing with, like, 400 tracks of bloody bells or something like that, when you’re actually going through it, you’re going to find something that’ll make you think, \"God, I wish we had done this or that.\"
W: Right. With this new album, I know you guys self-produced it. Now, I may be making this up, but I could have sworn that there were some tracks done earlier, over a year ago, that were done by another producer. But, eventually, they were scrapped. Is that right? Or am I making that up?
R: No, that’s right. We recorded 17 tracks in the final session for the album. But, prior to that, we had been thinking about working with a producer, so we hooked up with Tom Rothrock [Beck\'s Mellow Gold]. We did five tracks with him just to see how it was gonna work out. He’s a really great guy, and he works well. But there just wasn’t enough of The Beta Band there. It sounded like someone else’s version of The Beta Band, and it wasn’t what we wanted. So it all got scrapped.
W: Are some of the songs still there? Or is the album all-new material since then?
R: There are some of the same songs. There were some songs that we tried and tried and tried, again and again. Trying to record different versions of them, re-recording them. We tried everything, but they just never found a natural home.
W: Since the album was self-produced, essentially, there were four producers working on it at any given time. Although it sounds like fun, did it ever prove to be a pain in the ass?
R: No, no. I mean, that’s the way it’s always been in The Beta Band. There’s always three other people ready to tell you that what you’re doing is shit.
W: (laughs)
R: But, you know, as long as it’s a fresh idea, as long as you’re not just running the treadmill, you have to respect their opinion. Because it’s usually the person who has got the strongest vision for that section, so you respect them enough to say, \"Yeah, you’re right.\" It works out fine. It’s great. The way we did it was that each person works independently of each other for the first four or five months, and each person does their own version of each of the demos. So, when we came together, it wasn’t like we weren’t getting our points across, because we had all these versions sitting in front of us, saying, \"This is how I think it should be.\" But then you listen to what everyone else thinks it should be. And we’re old enough to be able to see amongst all of that which bits are the strong bits, and which bits are really working.
W: Right.
R: So, it’s ultimately fulfilling.
W: Was the mixing process with Nigel [Godrich] pretty painless? Because I know that he came in after everything was essentially done.
R: Yeah. It was totally painless. I mean, at first, we were like, \"What? What do you mean? We mixed it! It’s our record! Why do you have to get someone else?\" But then we thought, \"Well, why not?\" I mean, even if it improves it by just three percent, that’s an improvement. And Nigel is a really nice guy, because he’s really honest, and has really strong opinions and character. For example, I remember him saying, \"You know, I love \'Assessment\'. I think it\'s great. I love the first bit. But why put that ridiculous pop rock section on the end with the brass? I fucking hate that. I think you should just leave it.\" And we were like, \"Well, we do like that, so please leave it alone.\" (laughs)
W: (laughs)
R: And he said, \"Well, I don’t like it, but I’ll go along with it.\"
W: So there was a good amount of give-and-take.
R: Yes. Absolutely. He’d have an idea and bring it to us, and we’d say, \"Great. Go for it.\" Or we’d say, \"Don’t do that.\"
W: That’s great. You know, I’ve been listening to you guys for awhile now, and I’ve caught you guys live before. And the thing I like about The Beta Band is that I can never really explain to people what you sound like.
R: Yeah. There’s usually an awkward silence.
W: (laughs) Exactly.
R: Or they’ll come up with some long, rambling, ridiculous metaphor about a quadruped animal and a body of water, or something like that.
W: (laughs)
R: It’s not easy.
W: Yeah. I mean, I don’t think a genre exists that you could be put into. But every press release or review I read, they’ll always throw around the term \"acid pop\" or \"stoner music\".
R: Yeah. And I don’t know why we have to be classified. It’s better in the States, to be honest. Over here [Europe] it’s like (in mocking tone), \"Yeah! The Beta Band! It’s like Beck meets Bob Dylan lying on a grassy bank, listening to Shawadiwadi!\" And we’re just like, \"What are you talking about?\" But in the States, they’ll go in and describe a specific track, or something like that. But, at the end of the day, come to the show and make up your own mind.
W: Do you think there’s a stigma attached to The Beta Band? I mean, obviously, you have your High Fidelity fans. And then you have your stoner, pothead fans. Is it hard to be a member of The Beta Band?
R: Well, if they had read all the press first, they would probably expect it to be something. And then they’d probably be surprised or shocked or maybe disappointed, because it’s always going to be something different. It’s ever-changing. But it’s truly just weird. There isn’t one sort of specific fan that joins up. It’s everything from baggage handlers to politicians to spotty, little 12-year-olds to crazy middle-aged women. It’s mainly people who have seen us once, and then they come back again.
W: Yeah, your shows are pretty fun and amazing. I saw you guys in 2002, the night after you performed in Chicago, when all the lights went out. (laughs)
R: Oh, yeah. (laughs) That was an interesting night. I wish we could have done more.
W: So, with having produced the new album, and with having been in charge of directing the music video for \"Assessment\", is it safe to say that you guys are control freaks?
R: Yeah. Pretty much. But not in a sexual way. (laughs)
W: (laughs)
R: If you’re doing something creative, it pays to be in control of every part of it. Otherwise, it gets put into the machine. And the machine just has one huge eye that doesn’t see very well. So it just sort of runs around out of control, and mangles things up. It’s important to try and do everything yourself. Because, inevitably, through the process of communication, something gets lost. We have all these ideas for videos we want to do, or how the artwork is to look, or how the live show is supposed to be. And, at the end of the day, we probably wind up wearing loin cloths. (laughs)
W: (laughs) Whose idea was it for the \"Assessment\" video?
R: Well, the first video we ever made... I had a lot of sets of Army clothing, because they’re pure function, and I love that about them. So I said, \"Let’s go make a film up in the park.\" And I had all these wardrobes of ridiculous outfits in my house, so we just put on these outfits, and filmed us jumping around. And now, Steve [Mason - lead singer] said, \"I’d really like to make another Army video.\" And then we decided to make it about the history of war, and make it all one shot. But then we realized that we needed a point to all of this; a reason why they’re fighting. So we introduced the mysterious object, which has all sorts of symbolism. So it just morphed into that. We’ll start with one idea, and then brainstorm, and it always goes to extremes, reaching into the totally ridiculous. But at the end of it, you have a video.
W: Well, it turned out really well.
R: We’re really pleased with it.
W: Good. You know, it seems like Heroes To Zeros is a lot more political than previous work. Is that because the entire planet is more political now?
R: Yeah. I mean, the work isn’t really referencing anything specific, but it is generally more aggressive. And we all feel slights of anger about all these things going on in the world. And you just feel so powerless against it all, because it’s just so cloak-and-dagger.
W: Right. But I feel that there is this movement in almost all art right now, and things are starting to get more political. For instance, I know the upcoming Beastie Boys album, To The 5 Boroughs, is much more political in nature than their previous work. And there is a belief that in times of restrictions and Patriot Acts, that the best art is created. Do you feel that the politics of the world are changing the art for you guys?
R: It’s entirely possible. I guess I don’t have enough of an overview of politics to be able to comment, but I definitely agree with that. I think that only suffering and deprivation is ever gonna get anyone off their ass, and make them stand up for any tiny thing they believe in. There’s a classic line in The Count Of Monte Cristo. I don’t know if you’ve read it, but he’s locked up in some cave for the rest of his life with some guy who has been in there for his whole life. So he meets this guy, and this guy has written all these amazing books, and kept all these amazing records. And he says, \"Bloody hell! Imagine what you would have done if you’d have been free!\" And the guy says, \"I probably would have sat on my ass and done nothing. But, because I’m trapped in this desperate condition, it’s forced this all out of me to keep me sane.\"
W: That’s a cool statement, and it’s very true. So, I know you guys do a lot of video work in addition to the music you create. And you are planning on releasing two DVDs soon?
R: Well, it might end up morphing into the same DVD. But, yeah, some of it will be music videos, some of it will be short films. Some of them we’ll do, and some of them we might give to friends, because they’ve got some great ideas, too. I had a friend filming us during the entire time we were making and preparing the album, so, if he ever ends up editing that into something of coherence, that might be the other DVD.
W: Do you guys approach visuals in the same way that you would approach making the music? Or is that a totally different process?
R: It’s pretty much the same. I see everything in pictures. When I’m making music, I see it in pictures. So, it’s a natural thing to add visuals to the music. The really abstract thing is editing it together. You have to pay attention to what would make a good camera shot. Now, rather than have a mad film playing behind us while we play, which everyone gets mesmerized by, they’re more abstract now, and they don’t change as much.
W: Right. And I think that then adds a nice accent to the show.
R: Right.
W: In the past, I know The Beta Band has been fairly critical of their own work. For instance, you guys weren’t crazy about your self-titled album.
R: Yeah. But, what can you expect? I mean, we’re control obsessed. And that was our first album, so we really had huge expectations of it. But, at the end of it, to have to hand that over and say, \"This is what we’ve done. We’re not happy with it, but we just didn’t have the time or money to work on it anymore. But, there it is.\" I think it’s still good, especially now, because it’s in the context of history. And we’ve had a few albums after that that we were entirely happy with. It’s just that there was a lot of attention on us then, and we didn’t feel that it was up to the standard that we imposed on ourselves.
W: Right. Well, my question is, I know it’s your new baby, and it just came out, but now that the CD is pressed, in stores, and in people’s homes, is there anything on it that you wish you could have done differently?
R: I’d have to say no. It was such a long process; to be with it that long, go through different versions of each song, playing it live, listening to it a million times while recording it, and then to have to pick 12 tracks out of the 17... that was all hard to do. And we could have put them all on, because they were all great. But that just makes for a stronger record, to then refine it even more. So, no, there would be nothing to change.
W: That’s great for you guys.
R: I am kind of hungry to get back to the process again. It was so fulfilling, so I’m quite excited about making more music now.
W: Are you all considering solo projects?
R: Well, we did have a bit of time at the end of last year. So, Rich [Greentree] finished a four-song EP with his friend that’s fucking great. Being a perfectionist as he is, he’s still tweaking bell noises and stuff like that on it. Steve’s got an album that’s about 60% hashed. But he’s just run out of time now, and lost enthusiasm for it, because we’ve been doing Beta Band stuff. And I’ve been working on this project with a friend from back home, but I don’t know where that will all fit in, or whether or not it will be released. And John [Maclean] has been writing a screenplay for a film he wants to make.
W: Wow.
R: So, we’ve all got irons in the fire.
W: Everybody is busy.
R: Yeah.
W: Well, the last question I have for you is one we ask everyone we interview, and it has nothing to do with anything we just talked about for the past half-hour.
R: Okay.
W: Do dogs have lips?
R: (pauses) Yeah. They do. Yeah.
W: (laughs) Right on. Well, thanks for doing this, Robin.
R: (laughs) Sure.
W: And have a good tour.
R: Thanks. We’re heading to the beach now, actually.
W: Cool. Well, have fun at the beach, and I’ll see you guys when you come around.
R: See you in September.
W: Definitely.
Wayne: Are you in Scotland right now?
Robin: I’m in Portsmouth, England. I’m enjoying the summer off in the sunshine.
W: Oh, that’s nice. I’m in Milwaukee enjoying nothing.
R: (laughs) Oh, come on.
W: (laughs) Well, I just wanted to start by saying congratulations on the new record.
R: Thank you.
W: It’s been out for a week now?
R: Actually, two weeks here [Europe].
W: Oh, alright. Has the feedback been good?
R: Yeah. We’ve gotten really good feedback. We’ve been on tour for a couple weeks now, so that’s a bit of a shock to our systems. But, it’s going well. We’re getting the grips of it, and we’re getting stronger every night, so that’s good. By the time we hit the States, we’ll be streaming balls of light.
W: (laughs) You’ll be on fire.
R: Possibly, yeah. (laughs)
W: I read that you guys approached this album [Heroes To Zeros] differently from the ways you’ve approached previous albums, and that you practiced the material for 18 months before you even laid down one track in the studio.
R: Yeah, that’s right.
W: So, I know the songs progress a lot on tour for you guys. But is the new material still progressing as much on tour? I ask because they were so solid by the time they hit the studio.
R: They’re morphing a little bit, but they’re pretty much the same.
W: Well, does it then feel more formulaic, since you know the material so well now? Are you expanding on it as much as you would have, if you’d have just went directly into the studio and recorded?
R: Maybe not. But that’s what we wanted to do. If you just go and record it in the studio, let’s say, and you’re dealing with, like, 400 tracks of bloody bells or something like that, when you’re actually going through it, you’re going to find something that’ll make you think, \"God, I wish we had done this or that.\"
W: Right. With this new album, I know you guys self-produced it. Now, I may be making this up, but I could have sworn that there were some tracks done earlier, over a year ago, that were done by another producer. But, eventually, they were scrapped. Is that right? Or am I making that up?
R: No, that’s right. We recorded 17 tracks in the final session for the album. But, prior to that, we had been thinking about working with a producer, so we hooked up with Tom Rothrock [Beck\'s Mellow Gold]. We did five tracks with him just to see how it was gonna work out. He’s a really great guy, and he works well. But there just wasn’t enough of The Beta Band there. It sounded like someone else’s version of The Beta Band, and it wasn’t what we wanted. So it all got scrapped.
W: Are some of the songs still there? Or is the album all-new material since then?
R: There are some of the same songs. There were some songs that we tried and tried and tried, again and again. Trying to record different versions of them, re-recording them. We tried everything, but they just never found a natural home.
W: Since the album was self-produced, essentially, there were four producers working on it at any given time. Although it sounds like fun, did it ever prove to be a pain in the ass?
R: No, no. I mean, that’s the way it’s always been in The Beta Band. There’s always three other people ready to tell you that what you’re doing is shit.
W: (laughs)
R: But, you know, as long as it’s a fresh idea, as long as you’re not just running the treadmill, you have to respect their opinion. Because it’s usually the person who has got the strongest vision for that section, so you respect them enough to say, \"Yeah, you’re right.\" It works out fine. It’s great. The way we did it was that each person works independently of each other for the first four or five months, and each person does their own version of each of the demos. So, when we came together, it wasn’t like we weren’t getting our points across, because we had all these versions sitting in front of us, saying, \"This is how I think it should be.\" But then you listen to what everyone else thinks it should be. And we’re old enough to be able to see amongst all of that which bits are the strong bits, and which bits are really working.
W: Right.
R: So, it’s ultimately fulfilling.
W: Was the mixing process with Nigel [Godrich] pretty painless? Because I know that he came in after everything was essentially done.
R: Yeah. It was totally painless. I mean, at first, we were like, \"What? What do you mean? We mixed it! It’s our record! Why do you have to get someone else?\" But then we thought, \"Well, why not?\" I mean, even if it improves it by just three percent, that’s an improvement. And Nigel is a really nice guy, because he’s really honest, and has really strong opinions and character. For example, I remember him saying, \"You know, I love \'Assessment\'. I think it\'s great. I love the first bit. But why put that ridiculous pop rock section on the end with the brass? I fucking hate that. I think you should just leave it.\" And we were like, \"Well, we do like that, so please leave it alone.\" (laughs)
W: (laughs)
R: And he said, \"Well, I don’t like it, but I’ll go along with it.\"
W: So there was a good amount of give-and-take.
R: Yes. Absolutely. He’d have an idea and bring it to us, and we’d say, \"Great. Go for it.\" Or we’d say, \"Don’t do that.\"
W: That’s great. You know, I’ve been listening to you guys for awhile now, and I’ve caught you guys live before. And the thing I like about The Beta Band is that I can never really explain to people what you sound like.
R: Yeah. There’s usually an awkward silence.
W: (laughs) Exactly.
R: Or they’ll come up with some long, rambling, ridiculous metaphor about a quadruped animal and a body of water, or something like that.
W: (laughs)
R: It’s not easy.
W: Yeah. I mean, I don’t think a genre exists that you could be put into. But every press release or review I read, they’ll always throw around the term \"acid pop\" or \"stoner music\".
R: Yeah. And I don’t know why we have to be classified. It’s better in the States, to be honest. Over here [Europe] it’s like (in mocking tone), \"Yeah! The Beta Band! It’s like Beck meets Bob Dylan lying on a grassy bank, listening to Shawadiwadi!\" And we’re just like, \"What are you talking about?\" But in the States, they’ll go in and describe a specific track, or something like that. But, at the end of the day, come to the show and make up your own mind.
W: Do you think there’s a stigma attached to The Beta Band? I mean, obviously, you have your High Fidelity fans. And then you have your stoner, pothead fans. Is it hard to be a member of The Beta Band?
R: Well, if they had read all the press first, they would probably expect it to be something. And then they’d probably be surprised or shocked or maybe disappointed, because it’s always going to be something different. It’s ever-changing. But it’s truly just weird. There isn’t one sort of specific fan that joins up. It’s everything from baggage handlers to politicians to spotty, little 12-year-olds to crazy middle-aged women. It’s mainly people who have seen us once, and then they come back again.
W: Yeah, your shows are pretty fun and amazing. I saw you guys in 2002, the night after you performed in Chicago, when all the lights went out. (laughs)
R: Oh, yeah. (laughs) That was an interesting night. I wish we could have done more.
W: So, with having produced the new album, and with having been in charge of directing the music video for \"Assessment\", is it safe to say that you guys are control freaks?
R: Yeah. Pretty much. But not in a sexual way. (laughs)
W: (laughs)
R: If you’re doing something creative, it pays to be in control of every part of it. Otherwise, it gets put into the machine. And the machine just has one huge eye that doesn’t see very well. So it just sort of runs around out of control, and mangles things up. It’s important to try and do everything yourself. Because, inevitably, through the process of communication, something gets lost. We have all these ideas for videos we want to do, or how the artwork is to look, or how the live show is supposed to be. And, at the end of the day, we probably wind up wearing loin cloths. (laughs)
W: (laughs) Whose idea was it for the \"Assessment\" video?
R: Well, the first video we ever made... I had a lot of sets of Army clothing, because they’re pure function, and I love that about them. So I said, \"Let’s go make a film up in the park.\" And I had all these wardrobes of ridiculous outfits in my house, so we just put on these outfits, and filmed us jumping around. And now, Steve [Mason - lead singer] said, \"I’d really like to make another Army video.\" And then we decided to make it about the history of war, and make it all one shot. But then we realized that we needed a point to all of this; a reason why they’re fighting. So we introduced the mysterious object, which has all sorts of symbolism. So it just morphed into that. We’ll start with one idea, and then brainstorm, and it always goes to extremes, reaching into the totally ridiculous. But at the end of it, you have a video.
W: Well, it turned out really well.
R: We’re really pleased with it.
W: Good. You know, it seems like Heroes To Zeros is a lot more political than previous work. Is that because the entire planet is more political now?
R: Yeah. I mean, the work isn’t really referencing anything specific, but it is generally more aggressive. And we all feel slights of anger about all these things going on in the world. And you just feel so powerless against it all, because it’s just so cloak-and-dagger.
W: Right. But I feel that there is this movement in almost all art right now, and things are starting to get more political. For instance, I know the upcoming Beastie Boys album, To The 5 Boroughs, is much more political in nature than their previous work. And there is a belief that in times of restrictions and Patriot Acts, that the best art is created. Do you feel that the politics of the world are changing the art for you guys?
R: It’s entirely possible. I guess I don’t have enough of an overview of politics to be able to comment, but I definitely agree with that. I think that only suffering and deprivation is ever gonna get anyone off their ass, and make them stand up for any tiny thing they believe in. There’s a classic line in The Count Of Monte Cristo. I don’t know if you’ve read it, but he’s locked up in some cave for the rest of his life with some guy who has been in there for his whole life. So he meets this guy, and this guy has written all these amazing books, and kept all these amazing records. And he says, \"Bloody hell! Imagine what you would have done if you’d have been free!\" And the guy says, \"I probably would have sat on my ass and done nothing. But, because I’m trapped in this desperate condition, it’s forced this all out of me to keep me sane.\"
W: That’s a cool statement, and it’s very true. So, I know you guys do a lot of video work in addition to the music you create. And you are planning on releasing two DVDs soon?
R: Well, it might end up morphing into the same DVD. But, yeah, some of it will be music videos, some of it will be short films. Some of them we’ll do, and some of them we might give to friends, because they’ve got some great ideas, too. I had a friend filming us during the entire time we were making and preparing the album, so, if he ever ends up editing that into something of coherence, that might be the other DVD.
W: Do you guys approach visuals in the same way that you would approach making the music? Or is that a totally different process?
R: It’s pretty much the same. I see everything in pictures. When I’m making music, I see it in pictures. So, it’s a natural thing to add visuals to the music. The really abstract thing is editing it together. You have to pay attention to what would make a good camera shot. Now, rather than have a mad film playing behind us while we play, which everyone gets mesmerized by, they’re more abstract now, and they don’t change as much.
W: Right. And I think that then adds a nice accent to the show.
R: Right.
W: In the past, I know The Beta Band has been fairly critical of their own work. For instance, you guys weren’t crazy about your self-titled album.
R: Yeah. But, what can you expect? I mean, we’re control obsessed. And that was our first album, so we really had huge expectations of it. But, at the end of it, to have to hand that over and say, \"This is what we’ve done. We’re not happy with it, but we just didn’t have the time or money to work on it anymore. But, there it is.\" I think it’s still good, especially now, because it’s in the context of history. And we’ve had a few albums after that that we were entirely happy with. It’s just that there was a lot of attention on us then, and we didn’t feel that it was up to the standard that we imposed on ourselves.
W: Right. Well, my question is, I know it’s your new baby, and it just came out, but now that the CD is pressed, in stores, and in people’s homes, is there anything on it that you wish you could have done differently?
R: I’d have to say no. It was such a long process; to be with it that long, go through different versions of each song, playing it live, listening to it a million times while recording it, and then to have to pick 12 tracks out of the 17... that was all hard to do. And we could have put them all on, because they were all great. But that just makes for a stronger record, to then refine it even more. So, no, there would be nothing to change.
W: That’s great for you guys.
R: I am kind of hungry to get back to the process again. It was so fulfilling, so I’m quite excited about making more music now.
W: Are you all considering solo projects?
R: Well, we did have a bit of time at the end of last year. So, Rich [Greentree] finished a four-song EP with his friend that’s fucking great. Being a perfectionist as he is, he’s still tweaking bell noises and stuff like that on it. Steve’s got an album that’s about 60% hashed. But he’s just run out of time now, and lost enthusiasm for it, because we’ve been doing Beta Band stuff. And I’ve been working on this project with a friend from back home, but I don’t know where that will all fit in, or whether or not it will be released. And John [Maclean] has been writing a screenplay for a film he wants to make.
W: Wow.
R: So, we’ve all got irons in the fire.
W: Everybody is busy.
R: Yeah.
W: Well, the last question I have for you is one we ask everyone we interview, and it has nothing to do with anything we just talked about for the past half-hour.
R: Okay.
W: Do dogs have lips?
R: (pauses) Yeah. They do. Yeah.
W: (laughs) Right on. Well, thanks for doing this, Robin.
R: (laughs) Sure.
W: And have a good tour.
R: Thanks. We’re heading to the beach now, actually.
W: Cool. Well, have fun at the beach, and I’ll see you guys when you come around.
R: See you in September.
W: Definitely.
artid
2465
Old Image
6_10_jones.jpg
issue
vol 6 - issue 10 (jun 2004)
section
interviews